Pillbox, Horsebridge

Heres just afew updated more shots of this taken today..

Vickers MG Emplacement.



















Internals



















And just to show how water logged it was today!!





Anyone have any idea what these hooks were for?!



The commanding views out.

Last photo's nice. Have you been to Hellingly yet?

clebby said:

Have you been to Hellingly yet?

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Iv been to Park House Acute Unit which was abit of a disaster, but I would like to make a trip there but maybe with someone thats been before.

Nice pics Acen. A nice example of a variant Vickers MG Emplacement.

Acen I'd say that was something special, and a mighty fine example. Nice one.

Jonney is that a Vickers M.G Job?

Black Shuck said:

Jonney is that a Vickers M.G Job?

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Sure is mate

Would that be the same type of Vickers Machine Gun as used in WW1? Sorry for being so thick!

Black Shuck said:

Would that be the same type of Vickers Machine Gun as used in WW1? Sorry for being so thick!

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could be mate, some of the guns from WW1 were used by the home guard during WW2 due to weapons shortages. Here's a link to a website that might be able to tell you more...

http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/

Black Shuck said:

Would that be the same type of Vickers Machine Gun as used in WW1? Sorry for being so thick!

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Shuck,they were for the later model Vickers not the WWI water jacketed jobs. The same type you see mounted on AA tripods or SAS / LRDG jeeps of WWII era and have the circular magazine on top on that website that Jonney linked

Sorry to reply to my own post but iv updated the images for those interested,

Cheers acen.

That cutout in the embrasures is odd. I've not seen the like before, looks like it was needed to improve visibility for the gunner.

The hooks aren't hooks as such. They're just some of the steel reinforcing rods poking through the concrete.

This pillbox has been under water for a fair bit of its life, so some of the rods are visible as a result...

Nice find, the vickers emplacement near me has been chavved (ruined) is full of 80's "reading material" and has a stack of old cider cans in it.

Most of the clay brick clad ones fall to bits easily.

cptpies said:

Cheers acen.

That cutout in the embrasures is odd. I've not seen the like before, looks like it was needed to improve visibility for the gunner.

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I have a feeling it may have been to allow for an easier, and more importantly quicker, mag change. With, as you say, the added advantage of greater visibility.

I hadn't realised the later variants would have been in use on mainland Britain. I'd imagined the posts would have been equipped with the older belt fed, water cooled gun. But if they were the newer versions, it would have been awkward to do a top mounted, and it would be heavy with a full load, magazine change in the relatively confined space seen in the majority of VMG emplacements.

i thought that the .303 machine guns with top mounted "pie case" magazine as some called it, was called a lewis gun? this was used alot on jeeps and aircraft for "feather" light aa work. I also suspect that the strange shape of the openings was used so that the gunner could elevate his weapon and rain down huge amounts of fire on the enemy over a long distance like what we did in ww1.

Home Guard said:

i thought that the .303 machine guns with top mounted "pie case" magazine as some called it, was called a lewis gun? this was used alot on jeeps and aircraft for "feather" light aa work. I also suspect that the strange shape of the openings was used so that the gunner could elevate his weapon and rain down huge amounts of fire on the enemy over a long distance like what we did in ww1.

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I guess that would be feasible, particularly since the gunners would have all the time in the world to sight in on likely points of aim, so that if they did get attacked, they could hammer the rounds in well before the enemy even got sight of their position.

I have seen Vickers' with large elevated sights, so it would probably just mean giving the gunner something close by to aim at, so they could then pour their fire down onto the predetermined target area. Everything having been predetermined beforehand.

I know the Germans did a similar thing with one of their guns, with devastating effect. The enemy had no idea where the fire was coming from, and couldn't even shoot back since there was nothing to see to shoot at. Sneaky.

For indirect fire you would need a tripod mounted weapon and there is no gun table present to allow this, so I think the indirect fire theory is out in this case. The ability to elevate the gun higher for AA is also a non flyer (sorry couldn't resist it) as it would only allow a very narrow, and therefore almost useless, arc and if required probably would have been accomplished by putting in a type 23 or 27. I still think it's mainly for visibility reasons.

Home Guard said:

i thought that the .303 machine guns with top mounted "pie case" magazine as some called it, was called a lewis gun? this was used alot on jeeps and aircraft for "feather" light aa work. I also suspect that the strange shape of the openings was used so that the gunner could elevate his weapon and rain down huge amounts of fire on the enemy over a long distance like what we did in ww1.

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Need to be a little bit careful here because the term "Vickers Gun" can cover at least two quite distinct, and quite different, types of weapon. The large, heavy, water cooled gun that everyone tends to associate with World War 1 (but which in fact served on well after the end of World War 2 until 1968) was a recoil operated weapon, the origins of which are on the direct line of descent from the Maxim Gun. However, the gun with the top mounted drum magazine that looked a little like a Lewis Gun without the barrel casing, was a gas operated machine gun known as the Vickers K, or more commonly the Vickers Gas Operated machine gun, usually shortened to VGO. This gun was used mostly in aircraft but also on vehicle mounts and is the one frequently seen in photos of WW2 SAS operations.

J

So can we be certain which version the VMG emplacements would have been designed for?