Thats the one I am on about Hercules, its just north of Mundesely. What on Earth is the Cone all about?
Allan Williams Turret Norfolk
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Thats the one I am on about Hercules, its just north of Mundesely. What on Earth is the Cone all about?
Is the book Silent Sentinels? Might have to buy a copy if so. Looks interesting.
Does the book mention whether they were ever actually armed for AA use. Having stood inside one, there's no way I can see it being practical. Apart from anything else, the noise alone would send you insane in minutes. Even a smallish anti personnel gun would be bad enough. It'd also be a nightmare to operate the gun. From what I can remember of being inside, surely you'd have to use it kneeling?!
Is there any more detail of where the pillbox in Cromer was? I've got this vague memory of seeing something along those lines when I used to stay there with my grandparents as a kid. Probably went off the edge of the cliffs along with a few others along that stretch of coast?
Far from boring as well mate - this stuff fascinates me - doubly so if it's in my birth county
hercules
Active member
Do Excuse me, what i meant was, if Jerry had stormed ashore would the crew be dual purpose or would the AA crew have relocated further inland and left the pillbox boys to it
krela
Well-known member
Aaah ok. Depends where they were located, they were generally dual purpose and could be used for air defence OR anti aircraft use. It's unlikely they would have been used in an AA capacity in the event of an invasion, the AA capacity was designed for air raid defence.
hercules
Active member
Is the book Silent Sentinels? Might have to buy a copy if so. Looks interesting.
Does the book mention whether they were ever actually armed for AA use. Having stood inside one, there's no way I can see it being practical. Apart from anything else, the noise alone would send you insane in minutes. Even a smallish anti personnel gun would be bad enough. It'd also be a nightmare to operate the gun. From what I can remember of being inside, surely you'd have to use it kneeling?!
Is there any more detail of where the pillbox in Cromer was? I've got this vague memory of seeing something along those lines when I used to stay there with my grandparents as a kid. Probably went off the edge of the cliffs along with a few others along that stretch of coast?
Far from boring as well mate - this stuff fascinates me - doubly so if it's in my birth county
It is Silent Sentinels (well spotted),the two blokes in the picture look pretty cramped.Can't make out whether the ground is dug out slightly so they have got a bit of leg room. No more details on the Cromer pillbox although it is illustrated in a book by Peter Brooks titled Coastal Towns At War, may have to trawl through the local bookshops.
Is the book Silent Sentinels? Might have to buy a copy if so. Looks interesting.
Does the book mention whether they were ever actually armed for AA use. Having stood inside one, there's no way I can see it being practical. Apart from anything else, the noise alone would send you insane in minutes. Even a smallish anti personnel gun would be bad enough. It'd also be a nightmare to operate the gun. From what I can remember of being inside, surely you'd have to use it kneeling?!
Is there any more detail of where the pillbox in Cromer was? I've got this vague memory of seeing something along those lines when I used to stay there with my grandparents as a kid. Probably went off the edge of the cliffs along with a few others along that stretch of coast?
Far from boring as well mate - this stuff fascinates me - doubly so if it's in my birth county
There are two Allan Williams Turrets listed at Cromer on the cliffs either side of the town. Check my overlay or the DoB site out for their location. All turrets had a bracket for a Lewis or Bren at both the upper AA embrasure and the front ground role embrasure. I assume just one weapon would have been switched between them as the need dictated. Some DoB records suggest they were mounted over a pit as I originally thought, but doing a bit of research it seems they had two seats mounted on a baseplate. It must have been very cramped and with the front door open in the ground role would have offered little or no protection
Part of the problem of interpreting their role is that so few survive of the small number that were made that they now appear in what seem like isolated or unusual places. Indeed many of them have been moved so their original location is unknown. Where they do occur on the coast or stop lines they are always close to conventional pillboxes which supports the view that they were primarily for AA raid defence. Where they do not, then they are invariably located at airfields, radar sites, army HQ's or artillery batteries all of which required AA defence rather than ground defence.
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Assuming that's correct, can you shed any light on what this one supported? There are no significant defences nearby according to the DoB database?
It was there to give AA support to the bridges and redoubt. It was obviously a key site with bridges crossing two water features, important enough to have a redoubt. The Spigot Mortars were for AT defence the redoubt for infantry and the turret for AA defence and ground support if needed. There are a few other spots like this such as Ludham Bridge. Sites like this is were often bombed and may also have been considered at risk of an airborne coup de main force like we used at Pegasus bridge in Normandy. The turret would have provided at least a token defence against this.
That said I'm not sure why a couple of pillboxes weren't built there too. There may well have been some that were subsequently demolished. The DoB is far from comprehensive unfortunately.
That was really the point I was making. There was decoy airfield just to the NE at Sutton, a special ops field NW at Somersham and a railway just up the road, yet there's barely a pillbox in the area. Seems really odd, as an enemy force that made it that far would already hold a number of airfields and passing over the bridge would allow easy access to at least 5 more, with no effective stop lines in between. 10 miles up the road, there are countless type 22s, 24s and 28s, yet all they stuck here was a single AW turret and a couple of mortars. I'd love to track pictures down from the era, as I'm sure they can't have overlooked such a massively important point - but there's nothing been removed since as far as I'm aware.
Near Tynham
This one lies near the beach by Tynham abandoned village in Dorset
This one lies near the beach by Tynham abandoned village in Dorset
I guess they thought the redoubt was enough and it was probably bristling with sandbagged emplacements anyway. it certainly couldn't have been bypassed and left in the enemy's rear unlike a couple of lightly manned pillboxes.
I'm itching for the TARA archive to finally come on-line so I can get a look at the contemporary aerial photos of these places. It will clear a lot of this kind of speculation up.
I'm definitely with you on that one. My grandfather flew the Peenemunde raid amongst others, so seeing the recon before and after for that one will be something I'll be itching to see. It's sad and horrific on a lot of levels, but no doubt a lot of it will be fascinating at the same time.
"Allan Williams, operations manager of Tara"
How ironic is that!
I'm definitely with you on that one. My grandfather flew the Peenemunde raid amongst others, so seeing the recon before and after for that one will be something I'll be itching to see. It's sad and horrific on a lot of levels, but no doubt a lot of it will be fascinating at the same time.
"Allan Williams, operations manager of Tara"
How ironic is that!
I just checked and the Scottish and some worldwide imagery is already available at http://tara.rcahms.gov.uk/ the bad news is the B@$tards are charging £10 for anything above a thumbnail.
That's a bit bad really. OK, so there's a cost associated with scanning and storage, but it sure as hell ain't £10 per photo and, at the end of the day, they were all originally taken with public funded resources. The government seems intent on taking our heritage and turning it into a cash cow. Same thing happened with census images
