"Overexposed" B-29 Aircraft, Bleaklow, Derbyshire

[Foxylady]

Useful link there, James. Love the latest photos. Excellently done.

 

[james.s]

Oh, that's made me feel a bit better, thanks
I will put a picture of the Throttle controls on here as a mark of gratitude

 

[HypoBoy]

English Heritage's information states that it took part in Operation Crossroads. Presumably for them to have documented the fact, they must have supporting evidence

 

[james.s]

I knew it! Ha! Thanks Hypoboy

Cool! Thanks again Hypoboy!
Here is a quote for those who cannot be bothered to look at the link (you should, there is more than this)

The Post-War period crash site of aircraft 44-61999 "Over Exposed": an American Boeing Superfortress RB-29A heavy bomber, which was modified to be a F13A, and which thus had been in use prior to the crash in a reconnaissance role. The crash occurred at Higher Shelf Stones on 3rd November 1948. The aircraft is of historic interest because of its role in the Cold War: it was formerly part of the 509th Composite Group involved in filming the atomic bomb tests at Bikini Atoll, codenamed Operation Crossroads. Afterwards at the time of the Berlin Air Lift the aircraft was used by the 16th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, 311th Air Division, to reconnoitre and map the Russian occupied area of Germany from bases in Britain. The crew's tour of duty was coming to a close and they were on a transport flight from RAF Scampton to the USAF base at Burtonwood when they crashed, probably due to becoming lost in overcast conditions. A Royal Air Force Mountain rescue team from Harpur Hill found the crashed aircraft, all the crew had been killed in the crash and subsequent fire. Large pieces of aircraft wreckage were reportedly still on site at the start of the 21st century, including part of a gun turrent, wing section, cyclone engine and fragments of undercarriage. Please note that a licence to excavate or recover any remains from a military crash site must be first obtained from the Ministry of Defence before any such investigation can take place. By 1997 a commemorative stone had been erected at the crash site. The site lies not only within the Peak District National Park but also the Park Peak Site of Special Scientific interest.

 

[Neosea]

English Heritage's information states that it took part in Operation Crossroads. Presumably for them to have documented the fact, they must have supporting evidence

What it does say, is that the aircraft belonged to the group that was involved in the operation but not that it flew any missions.

 

[james.s]

Yes, but back that up with Hypoboy's other source, and you have EVIDENCE that the plane did indeed fly a mission. An operation on the scale of Bikini Atoll would have meant that the plane would have been used for something anyway. Let's just stop argueing about it, there is evidence to suggest either way really. let's move onto a fact that we know to be true - It was used to Map the Russian occupied area of Germany around the time of WW2

 

[thompski]

So you have no idea. Thought so.

Yes, and your the leading expert in everything...

 

[james.s]

So you have no idea. Thought so.

Yeah, why get so arrogant over what began as a friendly discussion over the history of the plane?
Please tone it down, I am sure that you are not personally affected by whether it was involved in Nuclear testing or not.

 

[Badoosh]

An interesting thread this, thanks for sharing the pics. What must not be forgot here is that people died in the process of doing their daily work. Whilst history on the net can be a little vague sometimes, if i visit sites like this, it only inspires me to search further. I'm not taking a dig at Neosea here but we all have to learn somehwere. If i were in James shoes i would contact the USAF direct & ask them straight, that way it's better coming from a direct source. Answers are there for those who seek them! IMO, i think the pics are great & have captured a tragic place that many will never see.

 

[james.s]

That's a great idea Badoosh, I will look further into it. Thanks all for your support. I hope some of you can make it up here who haven't been already. Watch out though if you are not an experienced walker, my dad broke his ankle (I think) coming back down, so watch out.

 

[limpet]

very very cool!

 

[The_Revolution]

I've been doing a bit more research into this aircraft, (44-61999), and trying to find out if it was involved in the atomic bomb tests at Bikini-Atoll. I've not really found an answer to that question; just more questions.

Looking at the list of planes that took part in Operation Crossroads at Bikini-Atoll there are several B29s that took part however the photographic planes were modified B29s which are listed as F-13 Superfortress's. 44-61999 is actually listed here as being converted to a reconnaissance aircraft sometime in 1947 (after the atomic tests which had taken place the year before). Of course it could of still been one of the other B29s prior to being converted.

I also read that the wreckage here showed signs of yellow stripes on the wings which apparently put on the wings of aircraft that took part in the atomic tests (Operation Crossroads) at Bikini-Atoll. I have to say I don't recall seeing any and my thinking is; would they would have been removed by 1948? Can anyone confirm that the wings in the wreckage are painted?

It also seems that there was more than one reconnaissance B-29 called “Over Exposed”. This link lists two B29s with named Over Exposed that may of taken part in the Korean War several years after this crash.

Clicking on the names on the above links shows the nose art; they both appear to be nude pinups and the descriptions of the crashed B29 at Shelf Edge say it's nose art was of a nude blonde. With the first one listed on the link it seems it's unknown how it was lost but I've seen the nose art picture in connection with 44-61999 (probably in error). The other one is clearly a different aircraft (44-61813) however there is a mention of this one and Operation Crossroads here (although it's not that clear)

Finally after all the searching I did find a mention of the following book; which if anyone can get hold of a copy may have the answer.

The B-29 Superfortress: A Comprehensive Registry of the Planes and Their Missions. ISBN 0-7864-1787-0 by Robert A Mann. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/B-29-Superfortress-Comprehensive-Registry-Missions/dp/0786417870"]Amazon.com link[/ame].

(Thanks if you are still reading)

 

[james.s]

I also read that the wreckage here showed signs of yellow stripes on the wings which apparently put on the wings of aircraft that took part in the atomic tests (Operation Crossroads) at Bikini-Atoll. I have to say I don't recall seeing any and my thinking is; would they would have been removed by 1948? Can anyone confirm that the wings in the wreckage are painted?

There is indeed some yellow paint on the wings

Nice find, mr Revolution

 

[The_Revolution]

Ahh! I was about to stick my neck out and say I didn't think this one was involved but that picture would prove me wrong.

A good link, (rather than my comment above), to aircraft markings for Operation Crossroads and we'll have this nailed

 

[james.s]

No pictures as yet, but here is a source I have just found on here

Overexposed was an aircraft of the USAF’s 16th Photographic Reconaissance Squadron, detached to RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire. It had travelled widely during its life, in 1946 it had been one of the observer aircraft on what at the time was only the third air drop of an atomic weapon (and the first test to do so), “Able”, at Bikini Atoll in the Pacific.

 

[The_Revolution]

That was where I saw the picture of the nose art which was also shown as belonging to one of the Overexposed's that was possibly lost in Korea.

That Overexposed carries the number 1951, (the Korean B29 link above shows the same nose art and the number). I think the Shelf Edge one was numbered 1999.That's the problem with using blogs as a source; it's easy to spread incorrect information.

At the moment I still have two Overexposed's connected with Operation Crossroads but no definitive answer to their role.

 

[Dirus_Strictus]

On the Nuclear or not debate, LIO112's friend tested a small fragment of metal from the plane with a geiger counter and it is slightly over the UK's average background radiation level, so that could be a clue to determine whether it was the same plane that did monitor the Bikini Atoll tests.

Like much of the supposed research about this particular aircraft on the web, the above highly unscientific test tells you nothing. Comparison with an average background level using a meter of unproven calibration, is the equivalent of continually posting 'facts' without quoting the primary source. Only measurements undertaken in strict laboratory conditions would give meaningful results: however, Chernobyl could play havoc with low level readings due to Bikini.

A direct approach to USAF archives should be made for definitive answers on the history of ---1999. The F-13A conversion does seem to tie in with the 1947 batch, but this again could be unconnected with this aircraft flying during the atomic bomb tests. The F-13 camera fit comprised of standard vertical and oblique still cameras, whilst there are some still images of the explosion/mushroom that were obviously taken with an oblique setup, much of the images are on 16mm movie stock. Obviously some observation aircraft were fitted with a 16mm setup. so perhaps these were 'ordinary' B-29 bombers.

My personal feeling is that the name had nothing to do with the tests. In many cases the Crew Chief was the person responsible for the choice of aircraft name - this was certainly true for post 1945 B-29s. As is well known the Crew Chief regarded the aircraft as his personal property, the pilot only 'borrowing' it for the mission. Aircrew would tend to disagree - but with their safety and lives in the hands of the ground crew, would always give the Chief a free rein. Perhaps 1999's chief just had a thing for bare breasted women.

If the name was connected with the tests, it was uncannily prophetic - modern medical and radiation science now acknowledging, that many servicemen received the equivalent of a lifetime's radiation dose or more, during this period of mad cold war experimentation.

 

[HypoBoy]

Just to add, the subject of OverExposed has just come up on the Airfield Information Exchange, so I grabbed the chance and asked if anyone knew any more. Got the following reply.

RB-29 F13 44-61999 was built in Renton, Washington and entered service a month before WW2 ended. It was used in Operation Crossroads in July 1946. It photographed the airborne tests on 1st July 1946 and then again the underwater tests on 25th July.

Didn't ask the source, but no doubt it'll get further discussed over there and the specific dates above should make it easier for anyone to confirm should they wish.

 

[Dirus_Strictus]

RB-29 F13 44-61999 was built in Renton, Washington and entered service a month before WW2 ended. ]

This information is somewhat suspect for a number of reasons: -

The only version of the B-29 built at the Renton Plant was the A ie 61999 would be a B-29A if Renton production. This means that when converted to recon it would be designated F-13A and not F-13 (which was converted from the original unmodified B-29). The RB designation only came in after 1948, but again should be RB-29A if of Renton origin.

To add further confusion; between the end of WW11 and 1947 some F-13/F-13A aircraft appear to have been re-designated FB-29/FB-29A.

Unless you can positively trace a source back to official USAF records, I personally think, data such as this is just so much junk.

 

[james.s]

I think it is always going to be hard tracing information like that really. The best way is to contact the USAF as Badoosh said, but I haven't mustered up the courage yet