Police and trespassing...

[john1975]

Ok, looking for some advice or general experiences here..

As we all know, trespass, rightly or wrongly, is not a criminal offence, it is a civil tort.

Now, when you have all been out and about, have you ever had any run ins with the police and what is their attitude. How do the police conduct themselves??

Obviously not talking residential properties/land here..

Thanks all..

john

 

[4201Chieftain]

Last place I was caught by police was in the old runwell hospital. We had already been in there a few hours and they caught us walking away from the place. We said that it’s only a civil matter but they said it’s illegal to be in an enclosed area, looked through our cameras (at photos of runwell) and basically told us to get lost!

 

[night crawler]

Well there was some advice some where on here. Truth is just take care where you go. I've not been caught mainly because where I used to go I had permission. But far as I know the police of security cannot arrest you for trespass they can only ask you to leave. Mind you if you do damage then they have the right to arrest you. just check where your going is safe and keep an eye out for security and get out when you need to.
BTW I don't traipse around places at My age too dam old to run from anyone

 

[BikinGlynn]

Yep dont get caught!
been exploring 8 or 9yr & never been caught by police.
Have once been questioned by them outside a place when walking down a road, they had absolutely no evidence we had been inside but asked us if we had.
We admitted it, shown them our pics & they were sound, strangely didn't even tell us we shouldn't of been there or tell us not to go back in there

Honesty really is the best policy, they have better things to do that try & create a crime from someone who is clearly just taking pics.

 

[Hayman]

Ok, looking for some advice or general experiences here..

As we all know, trespass, rightly or wrongly, is not a criminal offence, it is a civil tort.

Now, when you have all been out and about, have you ever had any run ins with the police and what is their attitude. How do the police conduct themselves??

Obviously not talking residential properties/land here..

Thanks all..

john

Regarding trespass, there is a difference between being found on open land (agricultural fields, for example) and in an abandoned building or on an industrial site which still has fencing, etc.

If caught somewhere, saying you are interested in the history of the area, and you are recording what you are looking at for posterity may give some clout to your being there. Having good knowledge about the place would show you are serious in your activities, and not just there on the off-chance. When a local shopping-centre car park was being rebuilt - because of structural failure - I used the fact that I had been involved in engineering and building work in my working life to back up my watching the rebuilding and my taking photographs of the technical aspects of the re-construction. I eventually became accepted.

 

[Gibbo]

Back in the days of Peak Urbex I recall the police arresting anyone they caught with the flimsiest of excuses to try and curb the popularity of the hobby.

Good old AndyJ (RIP) getting arrested for vagrancy was a funny one!

 

[HughieD]

Peak Urbex? Is that a Derbyshire thing?

 

[wolfism]

Ok, looking for some advice or general experiences here..

As we all know, trespass, rightly or wrongly, is not a criminal offence, it is a civil tort.

Now, when you have all been out and about, have you ever had any run ins with the police and what is their attitude. How do the police conduct themselves??

Obviously not talking residential properties/land here..

Thanks all..

john

Trespass is a civil matter, but being in an enclosed space with intent is a criminal matter. Basically, entering a disused building means being in an enclosed space, so the police could charge you with that, or with breach of the peace, which is their catch-all if you're being a nuisance to them or to the landowner. Being polite and showing a bit of contrition goes a long way, and can mean the difference between being arrested or just getting a warning and being told to go on your way.

Glynn's advice is very sound, you can argue with security all day long, but don't argue with the police.

 

[BikinGlynn]

Trespass is a civil matter, but being in an enclosed space with intent is a criminal matter. Basically, entering a disused building means being in an enclosed space, so the police could charge you with that, or with breach of the peace, which is their catch-all if you're being a nuisance to them or to the landowner. Being polite and showing a bit of contrition goes a long way, and can mean the difference between being arrested or just getting a warning and being told to go on your way.

Glynn's advice is very sound, you can argue with security all day long, but don't argue with the police.

not sure what the "intent" would be? intent to steal I suppose they could have u for or intent to cause damage.
If you are being a nuisance I guess it would become aggravated trespass which is a criminal offence.

simple fact is how many people do we know that have ever been arrested & charged with something doing Urbex?
i know there are a few but the likes of Ally Law deserve to be locked up tbh

 

[BikinGlynn]

Back in the days of Peak Urbex I recall the police arresting anyone they caught with the flimsiest of excuses to try and curb the popularity of the hobby.

Good old AndyJ (RIP) getting arrested for vagrancy was a funny one!

back in the day when we had a proper police force I guess.

 

[Hayman]

Yep dont get caught!
been exploring 8 or 9yr & never been caught by police.
Have once been questioned by them outside a place when walking down a road, they had absolutely no evidence we had been inside but asked us if we had.
We admitted it, shown them our pics & they were sound, strangely didn't even tell us we shouldn't of been there or tell us not to go back in there

Honesty really is the best policy, they have better things to do that try & create a crime from someone who is clearly just taking pics.

I suppose I began trespassing when, as a teenager, I ignored the great cast iron signs warning people not to trespass on railway lines and in railway depots. Quite rightly, it is a criminal offence to trespass on parts of railway property. I still do it though!

I recall workers on building sites objecting to me taking photos of the work, even when it was on well-known public buildings. Since most of my photography has been transport-related,
I have been questioned by the police when taking pictures while on public roads - mostly when the IRA terrorists etc were active in England. As BikinGlynn says, be open about why you
are somewhere, also show a genuine reason for what you are doing.

 

[wolfism]

not sure what the "intent" would be? intent to steal I suppose they could have u for or intent to cause damage.
If you are being a nuisance I guess it would become aggravated trespass which is a criminal offence.

simple fact is how many people do we know that have ever been arrested & charged with something doing Urbex?
i know there are a few but the likes of Ally Law deserve to be locked up tbh

Yep, exactly that - intent to steal or to cause damage.

A few folk I know or know of have been arrested or charged but don't tend to boast about it, whereas the goons advertise the fact they're "outlaws". Charges often get dropped when the case reaches the procurator fiscal (in Scotland) because they see that the accused was just taking photos and won't waste court time when there's no chance of a conviction.

Peel Group is a different kettle of fish as we know - Fiddlers Ferry recently due to criminal injunctions, and Bridgewater paper mill if you cast your mind back a few years, where IIRC explorers ended up with a criminal record as the site was covered by the Ports Security Reg's.

 

[Cuban B.]

I agree, getting caught or arrested is a cause of embarrassment and a sign of amateurism. It does happen though and is best kept quiet about.

 

[Hayman]

Yep, exactly that - intent to steal or to cause damage.

A few folk I know or know of have been arrested or charged but don't tend to boast about it, whereas the goons advertise the fact they're "outlaws". Charges often get dropped when the case reaches the procurator fiscal (in Scotland) because they see that the accused was just taking photos and won't waste court time when there's no chance of a conviction.

Peel Group is a different kettle of fish as we know - Fiddlers Ferry recently due to criminal injunctions, and Bridgewater paper mill if you cast your mind back a few years, where IIRC explorers ended up with a criminal record as the site was covered by the Ports Security Reg's.

As with railway sites, other transport locations also make trespass a criminal offence.

 

[BikinGlynn]

I agree, getting caught or arrested is a cause of embarrassment and a sign of amateurism. It does happen though and is best kept quiet about.

Oh yeah it can happen to anyone & can just be bad luck being in wrong place at wrong time, but some of the goons that seem to go out thier way for the thrill of being caught deserve to have everything they can thrown at them.

Of course sometimes its bad planning too like our close escape at Ironbridge power station which I can only blame myself for going on a Sat morning mid way through demo doh!

whole sage is here Ironbridge Power station-Feb 20

 

[Cuban B.]

I found that getting caught happened most on Eurotrips. A combination of having a limited amount of time, hitting places at the wrong time, and taking too many risks seeing you were on your holidays.

 

[Nyrian]

Your attitude will count for a lot. These security guys are just doing a job. It's a job I did for years. If they've had the arsehead urbexers over and over for days breaking locks or removing boards then you might get the brunt of that frustration. Be calm, friendly, and even apologise for wasting their time if they've had to drive out. Having to drive out to you they can genuinely miss that arsony angsty teen at another location. And arson hurt us urbexers too. Some people can't be calm or apologise and feel their "manhood" is in question if they don't yell back. They are the ones that are more likely to spend an hour detained waiting for police (who will also be annoyed at being called out to deal with minor trespass when there's speeding tickets to give out). I've only been at this 3 yrs now but never spent even a full minute with security or had police called. But yeah. Don't get caught is the first rule.

 

[wolfism]

I found that getting caught happened most on Eurotrips. A combination of having a limited amount of time, hitting places at the wrong time, and taking too many risks seeing you were on your holidays.

Aye, although sometimes it's just pure luck as we discovered when we split up leaving Gandrange steelworks via the rail yard. I guess security were pleased they found Skin and yourself, and didn't care about looking for the other two... by rights they should have collared Mornix and myself too, as I was faffing about trying to get some externals.

 

[DanMoist]

Step one is to take precautions to try and avoid being detected and caught. Don't park right outside a site, sneak in from a distance.

Step two is to realise that security and police will assume that you are most likely either some sort of idiot looking to vandalise things, or maybe a metal thief, youtuber or a risk taker looking for cheap thrills. Of course your're a history and photography enthusiast who just got a bit over excited and wanted to look at a site. Once they realise this then the chances are that they'll calm down and be OK about it.